Keel Sump

[Pterobyte]

Nice to talk to you today. Had a look at your photos, you have quite a bit of work to do this winter! Luckily you have a very nice place to work.

I took some more detail photos while you were at KW if you care to take a look: http://pterobyte.net/renovation-log/evelyn-32-2-keel-box

I am going to add one between the center and the aft and make it go all the way down. I am going to extend the forward one all the way down as well. Does that sound like enough?

The aft one does not go 'in' the box at all but looks like it is to add stiffness to the box at the hull join.

The center one does reach the bottom and is glassed in. I drilled and exploratory hole to check for water and it came up bone dry.

The forward one does not go down all the way.

Here is the Jock Strap we talked about.

[peter ross]

Not remotely the same boat, but similar floor upgrade. Also the "grid" was modified as part of the mast step, becoming a massive "I" beam. The grid was also replaced to locate furnature, but modified to enhance bonding areas. The one year old boat was damaged when a Noank charter company added 11 qts of oil to a full engine! That and pounding in the sand while anchored in shallows off Hampton Beach Va. The wing keel sucked into the sand while the boat rotated for hours on it.

http://s119.photobucket.com/albums/o145/Tynaje/Ericson%2038/

The floor installation is similar to what I would do to a 32, install as many as bolt spacing allows. Drop your keel first, laminate and make certain to build the bottom of the sump as well. Overlapping tabe is extremely important. Drill out the glass and reinstal the keel. Flatline's use of the molded liner is cosmetic and helps structure as well. I like it.
The bottom paint is well bonded to the hull, areas where it flaked had no signs of cracking, turn of the sump was another story, the sump was ready to come off the boat.
There are probably too many photos, but they were needed for the insurance company that bought into cost plus to rebuild the boat. Betterment was a very grey area, insurance companies apparently hate betterment even if it means safety.

[Pterobyte]

One of the loose keels issues is the bedding and Keel Plates. My keel plates were not adequate. The front was 1/16" aluminum. The bedding was wallowed out and filled with 5200. This allowed the keel plates to rock.

I dug out the 5200 fabricated two new keel plates out of 304 SS 1/4". Tough job for an angle grinder and drill press. Using the same process for setting the keel, I put the waxed keel plates in a bed of West 5200. The jack screws popped them right out so I can go back and finish the job with just bit of 5200.

New Bedding aft w/ west 404

New Bedding with West 404

Old bedding for keel plates, wallowed out 5200.

New Keel Plates 1/4" 304 SS, not to bad for a guy with an angle grinder and drillpress

Old Keel Plates, way too thin in the bow and stern was aluminum

[Intensity]

OK... I feel like the guy that gets the joke a few days after it's told, but I never really paid this post much attention till I pulled the boat the other day and saw the keel flailing around like a freakin wet noodle. (OK so I'm exaggerating) Of all the pics posted, none of them look like mine. Does that supprise anyone? haha.... OK so what I would like to know is... How did you guys deal with the keel sag in the back? I have added stiffeners to address the side to side, but as someone said before, the shaft hole has compromised the strength in the back of the keel. The keel has fallen down so that it is resting on the shaft. I'd say that's a good 1/8th to 1/4 inch. Anyone have pics of how to deal with this area? Thanks!!!!

[Motorboat!!]

Not that Motorboat!! is exactly the cadillac of Evelyn 32's, but if you are ever in New Orleans, you can come by and take a look at my sump. It was beefed up when the inboard was removed by the guys at PontYC, and I added a little more when I got the boat.

[FastCrab]

Yup- "Zingarella" is a formula boat, so these 'before' pictures look very, very familiar- as much as I've been able to see so far anyway. I've spent a good deal of time in there too- first I had to clean up a bad diesel leak that had floated on a couple inches of water everywhere while it was in other hands. Boy, do I hate it when that happens....Then the packing gland hose was leaking around the stub- & tightening the hose clamps just made it leak worse! I finally loosened the whole mess, slid it aft hard, & retightened it. That brought it down to a trickle, but still a steady trickle, not a drip! Geez, this is 'no big deal' except for the boat sinking while you are trying to fix it part! Especially when every time you touch it, it only gets worse! Once I had it under some semblance of control it still filled the keel sump every day. So yesterday I did the unthinkable...I taped the crap out of it... ('Red Green' would be proud if you know who he is...) Temporary mission accomplished- today, no water to pump out at all.

So, the official Survey says: "The keel stud, or sump, to which the ballast bolts, is cracked along its port, starboard and aft radii to the hull. Keel seemed to have excessive wag, from years of hard sailing. Structural grind out and laminate repair of keel sump to hull radii and possibly the addition of floor timbers, is highly recommended prior to further use."

Well...... I've asked in the 'general' forum but might as well ask again- from you Evelyn owners- should I be worried or can I sail a bit? I did take the chance and had the boat at speed beating in 10 Knots of wind and it is soooo nice- I can't wait to get it 'right' but I definately want to sail it a few more times before the winter work sessions. My guess is if I stay out of heavy air and do not run aground, I don't think it will come apart...

I think I'll make a pointer that fits tight in the sump but clears the prop shaft and extends up to the cabin top, I can measure and mark the lateral deflection easily that way and see how much it is underway. How much is too much though? Anyone hazard a guess?

[musicman]

I have some photos of your boat from a while back, looking at them I'm pretty sure it's not a Formula boat but, a C&C.
The 2 indications are:
Square tip Rudder (All the Formula boats I've seen have the rounded tip)
Flat toe rail track (many though not all Formula 32's have the old style raised track)
The engine istalation you have (with the tube exiting the sump) is the original "Formula" style though.
What is your hull number? I can tell you from that who made the boat.

[FastCrab]

From the HIN in the survey the first three letters are FMU- the Coast Guard database says Formula. Hull Serial # is 03232, built in 09 of 84. Unless C&C built them under license therefore Formula gets put in the HIN? It's been under my watch for only a few weeks and I am still investigating the boat, I could use any insight I can get. I haven't had much time to talk to Stovy about it and he is so busy these days he doesn't answer E-mails too fast.

I did find some cool polars and targets for it onboard!

[musicman]

From the HIN in the survey the first three letters are FMU- the Coast Guard database says Formula. Hull Serial # is 03232, built in 09 of 84. Unless C&C built them under license therefore Formula gets put in the HIN? It's been under my watch for only a few weeks and I am still investigating the boat, I could use any insight I can get. I haven't had much time to talk to Stovy about it and he is so busy these days he doesn't answer E-mails too fast.

I did find some cool polars and targets for it onboard!

C&C built all the boats after hull 8 or 9. What is the exact series of digits in your hull number? Please post it here.
Almost positive you have a C&C boat, in which case the PM I sent you about the sump is very important...

[darkstar32170]

FastCrab:

Are you willing to share your polars?

[FastCrab]

The HIN in the survey is FMU032320984, I will double check that's what's on the boat this AM before work. I know besides the moulded in number on the transom, it has a big number in a compartment under the stbd aft bunk but I didn't write it down at the time.

[musicman]

The HIN in the survey is FMU032320984, I will double check that's what's on the boat this AM before work. I know besides the moulded in number on the transom, it has a big number in a compartment under the stbd aft bunk but I didn't write it down at the time.

Ok, so you have hull #32, a C&C built boat. The C&C boats have a little different setup with the sump frames, and can have the layer of Carbon uni in the solid laminate. The Carbon in this case is a BIG srcew up & due to wagging is often de-laminated.
We had some cracking in the sump after KWRW05, when it was cut open we found large areas of delamination. The fix was to remove most of the outer skin and replace it (with the keel dropped down) a pretty big job....
To bad I don't have any photos of the additional frames we put in, you will need to do this. It's a tricky job since the motor is in the way.
Please post pics of your engine install showing the frames here, I'm 99% sure it will look just like our did.

[FastCrab]

Interesting. My plan was to see how much flex I am getting using a pointer made of my boathook first, but I bet it is bad and I anticipate the carbon delamination has happened. It's too windy today and tomorrow- maybe Sunday it will be OK. I know Stovy sailed it hard, well, and often over 15 years.

I anticipated replacing the glass work outside just from experience and the 'worst case' scenario playing in my engineer's brain. I've run some numbers on the moments from the 2,000 lb of lead and also calculated the lift at various anticipated speeds and points of sail from the polar. I already have quite a bit of biax and vacuum pump equipment so I can do it. Sure wish I had a trailer, I could put it inside to work on.

My plan was to use MAS epoxy or Durakane vinylester- is it an epoxy boat or polyester?

[FastCrab]

Do you think I have the aluminum load spreaders too? Fortunately I have access to a plasma cutter and plenty of stainless.

[Motorboat!!]

Ahh it's nice to have another engineer on here!

Musicman...could you briefly describe the differences in construction/design of the formula boats to the C&C boats? I know mine is a formula (hull 4), but am curious what changed. As soon as my baby is born (ok probably a little while after) I am looking for some ways to modify the boat. I know the crew wants to put in a beam of destiny, among other things.