Keel and rudder upgrades

[Motorboat!!]

Is there a particular vendor that makes carbon booms, that could make just the boom itself, and be able to re-use the existing fittings?

[musicman]

Call Tony at Forte rts.
860 464 5221

Tell him John Fries sent you. 8)

[formerVE32owner]

The stock 32 boom is a joke & should be replaced. If you put any real vang tension on downwind in heavy air you'll bend the hell out of it.
Our new boom is Carbon built at the same lbs/foot as the stock one as to avoid a rating hit. Make a big difference in breeze.

Yeah, it would smile back at you thats for sure!

[darkstar32170]

I had the opportunity to compare and measure the rudder on "Bloody Hell" with my rudder on "Dark Star." The rudders are similar foils however the rudder on "Bloody Hell" is a couple inches shorter top to bottom. Though I know the rudder could be smaller, if I was to change the rudder design I would go with the shorter chord, deeper (longer) rudder. I think the existing big rudder is great and I've never really had the boat broach - just lay over and keep going. You probably could reduce the weight of the rudder with a new one but I don't know if the rating hit would be worth it.

I agree with "Musicman" in that I would not change the keel. It would be nice to have a boat without the heavy crew requirement, something a lot less tender. However, I have sailed on the E42 "Pterodactyl" with the Brendon Dobroth keel and the boat isn't significantly faster than it was with the original keel (the rating is similar) - just different. With the new keel the light air ability suffers but is stronger above 15 knots. I would think that the E32-2 would be affected in a similar way.

If I were to replace the E32-2 keel I would include a pretty complete rebuild of the boat including a new, much larger carbon rig (which would necessitate and new sail inventory), and new rudder, new internal structure to take the larger loads and generally stiffen the boat throughout along with cutting out the transom and installing an auxiliary power setup similar to the Henderson 30, Melges 30, Viper 830 (an outboard in a well in the forward portion of the cockpit with a door to close off the opening when not in use). But then I would probably save money by just buying a new Melges 32.

I agree with the statement on the E32-2 webpage that, "Hey, for 1982, I think Bob pretty well nailed it." I am working on stiffening up "Dark Star" and found the interior photos of "Pterobyte" interesting. There are two large ring frame like structures under the foredeck and down the flat sides of the bow. I've also seen photos of a stiffening bulkhead that was installed fore-and-aft under the cockpit of an E25, a boat that is very similer to the E32-2. I think these modifications would provide for a better performing boat with better longevity and safety factors with minimal (if any) rating hit at low cost (I think I could even do them myself). As "Dark Star" is one of the "first eight" (some say seven) I don't know if the same would be applicable to the C&C built hulls. After replacing areas of balsa core in many areas of my deck I'm very happy that my hull is foam cored. How are the C&C hulls holding up?

[musicman]

" Though I know the rudder could be smaller, if I was to change the rudder design I would go with the shorter chord, deeper (longer) rudder"

That is if you were going to report the change......
:x

[peter ross]

Keels, well if I haven't had my fill of them lately..........they should remain in the boat at all times.......................
Cost is the ultimate issue.
I'm in the early stages of a new build project and time is hard to find for that poor <25. I have a 100lb roll of prepreg carbon to build the rudder and keel posts from. Even though this particular lucky find has an extremely long "out life" it should be used up soon. I usually build several posts and use them as demand calls. They are baked at 275 degrees and at or greater to autoclave pressure, using mechanical clamps, aluminum molds and mandrals.
Again, I can not design and support these rudders with real data. They really are seat of the pants use of materials and shapes that "look right." I do use real NACA sections and other stuff, except use of disclosure protected shapes. Kevin Farrar designed Gnat's rudder, using an 11% section we liked in the keel. I can consult a friend who will charge more for the design than I will the build. There is no way I am going to under build them, I don't like to build parts that break. I will also only build a rudder using my method, I will not build a carved foam rudder.
Back to square one, it's alot to ask someone to trust a shape developed by someone with limited education, and too much chemical exposure. But a carbon rudder at the cost of a low tech rudder. For the 25's, Gnat's rudder on a stainless sleaved post. Sleaving the carbon post allows the use of the existing tube. Keeping your hands off the boat is the key.
Modifying/scaling, Gnat's rudder for the 32 on a sleaved post would be my suggestion. Go deep, take the hit.
My shop is at my house in Jamestown, if anyone is in the area, please feel free to visit the new shop. Gnat is here now, the new rudder with it's boulder damage, a must see if interested in one of these (buzz time) unmatched blades.
Peter
401-207-9326

[peter ross]

I just saw an E25 rudder quote from Phils Foils, impossible to match their prices and the quality is great. I remember Phil did show an interest in the Evelyn ruddrs, but needed more input. I definately suggest someone give them a call for a group rate. Just make certain the solid aluminum rudder post is mentioned, so you don't end up with the "upgraded blade on existing post" option.